--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "csb_bc" wrote:

Unfortunately this comes with an increase in publicity and
letterboxing articles. Even if the article contained info regarding
stealth, and rehiding the box better than you find it, some folks just
don't have a clue. When ever we receive a note from a new letterboxer
we make sure we answer it and include several links to Newboxers
chatlist, AQ, LbNA FAQS page and regional chatlists in our area.

Don
>
> About 6 weeks ago I went to check my letterboxes on the south side of
> Campbell Valley Park. Neither had been rehidden properly, and one was
> left out in the open. Of course I can't help but think it was the
last
> finders who stamped into the log books. Then, last week I checked my
> Lighthouse Park boxes. The first was not replaced properly, and the
> second was missing. Last finders? Same as the Campbell Valley Park
> boxes. I would love to contact these people, but they aren't listed
on
> LbNA or AQ. I'm being torn between what letterboxing should be, and
> what it's becoming.
>

I witnessed folks letting their kids mess with the boxes while they stayed safe on the trail. "Did you hide the box Johnny?" "Yeah" replies the 6 year old. "Okay, on to the next one then".

Some people think it's just a kids game since they read about it in kids magazines and such.

-----Original Message-----
From: csb_bc@yahoo.com
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 11:13 PM
Subject: [LbNA] misplaced boxes

About 6 weeks ago I went to check my letterboxes on the south side of
Campbell Valley Park. Neither had been rehidden properly, and one was
left out in the open. Of course I can't help but think it was the last
finders who stamped into the log books. Then, last week I checked my
Lighthouse Park boxes. The first was not replaced properly, and the
second was missing. Last finders? Same as the Campbell Valley Park
boxes. I would love to contact these people, but they aren't listed on
LbNA or AQ. I'm being torn between what letterboxing should be, and
what it's becoming.


________________________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'll be re-writing clues...

RMORGAN762@aol.com wrote: I witnessed folks letting their kids mess with the boxes while they stayed safe on the trail. "Did you hide the box Johnny?" "Yeah" replies the 6 year old. "Okay, on to the next one then".

Some people think it's just a kids game since they read about it in kids magazines and such.

-----Original Message-----
From: csb_bc@yahoo.com
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 11:13 PM
Subject: [LbNA] misplaced boxes

About 6 weeks ago I went to check my letterboxes on the south side of
Campbell Valley Park. Neither had been rehidden properly, and one was
left out in the open. Of course I can't help but think it was the last
finders who stamped into the log books. Then, last week I checked my
Lighthouse Park boxes. The first was not replaced properly, and the
second was missing. Last finders? Same as the Campbell Valley Park
boxes. I would love to contact these people, but they aren't listed on
LbNA or AQ. I'm being torn between what letterboxing should be, and
what it's becoming.


__________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

That is true that you might want to blame newboxers, but what if it was a geo chacher or someone who plays the game but dosn't log there finds or stamp in ! When i get to a box thats been left in open .I contact placer.A couple of them i Know the last boxer and they would never have left the box that way !So it will stay a mystery as to whom left in the open .I figure luck was on the boxes side for not going missing and rehide better.Then we hope for the best.
Wildcats

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "gwendontoo"
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "csb_bc" wrote:

Unfortunately this comes with an increase in publicity and
letterboxing articles. Even if the article contained info regarding
stealth, and rehiding the box better than you find it, some folks just
don't have a clue. When ever we receive a note from a new letterboxer
we make sure we answer it and include several links to Newboxers
chatlist, AQ, LbNA FAQS page and regional chatlists in our area.

Don
>
> About 6 weeks ago I went to check my letterboxes on the south side of
> Campbell Valley Park. Neither had been rehidden properly, and one was
> left out in the open. Of course I can't help but think it was the
last
> finders who stamped into the log books. Then, last week I checked my
> Lighthouse Park boxes. The first was not replaced properly, and the
> second was missing. Last finders? Same as the Campbell Valley Park
> boxes. I would love to contact these people, but they aren't listed
on
> LbNA or AQ. I'm being torn between what letterboxing should be, and
> what it's becoming.
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This is certainly a problem but not particularly new to
letterboxing. When I started letterboxing after reading
the Time magazine article a few years ago, there were many
complaints on the lists about the same issues. Things tend
to settle down after the latest rush of newbies start
correcting their early mistakes or move onto another
hobby. Hopefully, this will happen with the latest new
boxers that started from reading the recent articles in
Family Fun and Games. We've tried to add more emphasis to
rehiding in LbNA Getting Started info and one every clue
page, but maybe there is more that we can do.

I know that doesn't make it any less painful for you, of
course.

Choi

On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 03:13:04 -0000
"csb_bc" wrote:
> About 6 weeks ago I went to check my letterboxes on the
>south side of
> Campbell Valley Park. Neither had been rehidden
>properly, and one was
> left out in the open. Of course I can't help but think
>it was the last
> finders who stamped into the log books. Then, last week
>I checked my
> Lighthouse Park boxes. The first was not replaced
>properly, and the
> second was missing. Last finders? Same as the Campbell
>Valley Park
> boxes. I would love to contact these people, but they
>aren't listed on
> LbNA or AQ. I'm being torn between what letterboxing
>should be, and
> what it's becoming.
>
>

That's awful to to witness. In no way am I suggesting children only to
blame, but while rewriting clues, I may consider adding "not kid-friendly"
or some other wording that will decrease the amount of casual, careless
traffic. I'm also planning longer hikes this year. This also will help.

speedsquare

--- CSB wrote:

> I'll be re-writing clues...
>
> RMORGAN762@aol.com wrote: I witnessed
> folks letting their kids mess with the boxes while they stayed safe on
> the trail. "Did you hide the box Johnny?" "Yeah" replies the 6 year old.
> "Okay, on to the next one then".
>
> Some people think it's just a kids game since they read about it in
> kids magazines and such.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: csb_bc@yahoo.com
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 11:13 PM
> Subject: [LbNA] misplaced boxes
>
> About 6 weeks ago I went to check my letterboxes on the south side
> of
> Campbell Valley Park. Neither had been rehidden properly, and one was
> left out in the open. Of course I can't help but think it was the last
> finders who stamped into the log books. Then, last week I checked my
> Lighthouse Park boxes. The first was not replaced properly, and the
> second was missing. Last finders? Same as the Campbell Valley Park
> boxes. I would love to contact these people, but they aren't listed on
> LbNA or AQ. I'm being torn between what letterboxing should be, and
> what it's becoming.


__________________________________________________
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After 3 of my boxes in an 8-box series went missing, I took the "kid
friendly" icon off my AQ listing (apparently, a troope of Girl Scouts
were the last ones to stamp in on the remaining boxes, and left them
unhidden - grrr!). I may take the "drive by" icon off as well, altho I
kinda wanted to leave it there for boxers who are differently-abled.

Next series will have harder clues...the first series were my first
plants, and also, there's not a lot of activity in this area, so I
wanted to get thing rolling. The one I'm working on now has much more
elaborate stamps, and I'd hate to have them disappear.

rozebud

--- ruhlette wrote:

> That's awful to to witness. In no way am I suggesting children only
> to
> blame, but while rewriting clues, I may consider adding "not
> kid-friendly"
> or some other wording that will decrease the amount of casual,
> careless
> traffic. I'm also planning longer hikes this year. This also will
> help.
>
> speedsquare
>
> --- CSB wrote:
>
> > I'll be re-writing clues...
> >
> > RMORGAN762@aol.com wrote: I
> witnessed
> > folks letting their kids mess with the boxes while they stayed safe
> on
> > the trail. "Did you hide the box Johnny?" "Yeah" replies the 6 year
> old.
> > "Okay, on to the next one then".
> >
> > Some people think it's just a kids game since they read about it
> in
> > kids magazines and such.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: csb_bc@yahoo.com
> > To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 11:13 PM
> > Subject: [LbNA] misplaced boxes
> >
> > About 6 weeks ago I went to check my letterboxes on the south
> side
> > of
> > Campbell Valley Park. Neither had been rehidden properly, and one
> was
> > left out in the open. Of course I can't help but think it was the
> last
> > finders who stamped into the log books. Then, last week I checked
> my
> > Lighthouse Park boxes. The first was not replaced properly, and
> the
> > second was missing. Last finders? Same as the Campbell Valley
> Park
> > boxes. I would love to contact these people, but they aren't
> listed on
> > LbNA or AQ. I'm being torn between what letterboxing should be,
> and
> > what it's becoming.
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>


"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." -- Mark Twain



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--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, alice.stone@... wrote:

> That is true that you might want to blame newboxers,

Hi Wildcats

I could cite several problems we had with letterboxes right after an
article, but just chose to advise csb-bc as to what the problem
could be.
There are many new letterboxers that never see a chatlist and go
letterboxing without figuring out that little Johnnie isn't the
proper person to rehide a box. That is why I chose to write about
what we do when receiving a "Contact the Placer" note, and list the
links we send them.
Now granted most folks that use this function probably would find
other stuff on their own, but some need a little nudging.
There are letterboxers that have around for some time that have
never gone on a chatlist, perused files,links, and other
informational web sites.
There are some letterboxers that do not understand where some hidden
clues are stashed as well.
While I was pointing fingers at new letterboxers, I see it as an
educating problem rather than a "stupid" problem. Many times the
articles are so brief and poorly written that the nuances are lost,
and the new letterboxer just fumbles on their own.
We recently had a writer contact a regional chatlist and I wrote the
reasons why I chose not to participate in their article. There was
some back and forth debate between us, but for me the bottom line
was the newspaper is in the business of selling papers and the
editors could really care less that the article represents
letterboxing and all of its ins and outs.
Generally speaking I do not trust the press. This writer expressed
that she had done a great deal of research already, but wanted to
quote a letterboxer that had been around for 10 years. Now had she
really done research she would have known that letterboxing in the
US hasn't been around that long.

Lock Wench just posted(on AQ) a copy of an article she was quoted
in, and that article was probably one of the best written pieces
I've seen. But will that keep the new boxer from doing stuff they
shouldn't...maybe...maybe not. It just depends on the individual.

Don

> While I was pointing fingers at new letterboxers, I see it as an
> educating problem rather than a "stupid" problem. Many times the
> articles are so brief and poorly written that the nuances are
lost,
> and the new letterboxer just fumbles on their own.

Hi

I am one of these so called "new letterboxers" that every one is
complaining about. I have been only involed for less than a month
BUT I did my home work. I researched the "RULES" that you all
follow. I explained the rules to my son.I searched out the boxes and
rehid them well.I dried all contents and replaced well in their
bags.I am respectful of the time and effort that was put into the
box.

You guys are almost scaring me out of this all though.God forbid I
ever find one of your boxes that a squirll or a dog found and have
to take the blame. We are not talking about the Amazon jungle here
where no man has gone before.Things happen,the wind blows, people
explore,dogs sniff around.

The very first letter box I ever found was one my dog carried out
from under a foot bridge.I left a note that it was found on accident
and rehid it.

Everyone was a "new letterboxer" once. I think we have to remeber
that.

Wilton Scout

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "wiltonscout"
wrote:
>
>
> > While I was pointing fingers at new letterboxers, I see it as
an
> > educating problem rather than a "stupid" problem. Many times the
> > articles are so brief and poorly written that the nuances are
> lost,
> > and the new letterboxer just fumbles on their own.
>
> Hi
>
> I am one of these so called "new letterboxers" that every one is
> complaining about.

Hi Wilton

Since you are responding to my post please reread it. I believe that
my point was NOT new letterboxers that read chatlists and do their
homework, but more directly at the publications that carry articles
regarding letterboxing. There are some new letterboxers that do not
go to the same lengths that you do, and they probably aren't reading
this in any case. They pick up the info about letterboxing through
poorly written articles.

I do realize that everyone was a new letterboxer at some time. When
we started we made several mistakes too, but we didn't have the
newboxers list, "Getting Started" articles at LbNA, and the vast
amount of info now available.
I spend a great deal of time at the newboxers list, and I do so for
selfish reasons....Education for the new folks, and I even learn a
thing or two there.


> You guys are almost scaring me out of this all though.<

This list can be brutally frank, even bordering on tactless at
times. It is not letterboxing it is chatting about letterboxing. If
my frankness bothers you I'm sorry, but you have to realize that
there are some folks out there that did not do the same research
that you have done.
Choi referrenced in a previous post the Time magazine article and
how this list went into an almost anti newboxer mode. We(Gwen & I)
lost over ten letterboxes in the first week after the article. None
in the several weeks prior and very few in the following weeks. That
certainly could have been dogs, squirrels, geocachers or
accidentally found but I believe the obvious was due to uniformed
new letterboxers. There is a learning curve.
Mark Pepe established the newboxer list at that time, and that has
really been beneficial to new boxers, and to the game itself.

Don

Letterboxing.org:
http://www.letterboxing.org/faq/faq.html

Silent Doug's site:
http://www.letterboxing.info/
Doug probably has the best info site on Hitchhikers and links to
regional chatlists.

AtlasQuest:
http://www.atlasquest.com/
Ryan has a link set up "Code of Conduct" that is really good for all
boxers to read

newboxers' group:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/newboxers/
Where there is no dumb question, and is "the" place for many
newletterboxers.

*sigh*

Yes, there are good newbies. They are usually the folks who actually
show up on an e-group or discussion list!

Please understand, no one is complaining about newbies - they are
complaining about newbies who don't follow good letterboxing etiquette.
Most people who stay with the hobby a while develop good habits. Yes,
some "seasoned" boxers might be responsible, but really - with the
recent spate of publicity, whom do you suspect is behind the spate of
missing, ill-hidden, not-reassembled-properly boxes?

Let me be on the record as saying I welcome with open arms any newbie
who wants to play the game. Just please remember, you're not the only
one who wants to enjoy that box!

rozebud

--- wiltonscout wrote:

>
> > While I was pointing fingers at new letterboxers, I see it as an
> > educating problem rather than a "stupid" problem. Many times the
> > articles are so brief and poorly written that the nuances are
> lost,
> > and the new letterboxer just fumbles on their own.
>
> Hi
>
> I am one of these so called "new letterboxers" that every one is
> complaining about. I have been only involed for less than a month
> BUT I did my home work. I researched the "RULES" that you all
> follow. I explained the rules to my son.I searched out the boxes and
> rehid them well.I dried all contents and replaced well in their
> bags.I am respectful of the time and effort that was put into the
> box.
>
> You guys are almost scaring me out of this all though.God forbid I
> ever find one of your boxes that a squirll or a dog found and have
> to take the blame. We are not talking about the Amazon jungle here
> where no man has gone before.Things happen,the wind blows, people
> explore,dogs sniff around.
>
> The very first letter box I ever found was one my dog carried out
> from under a foot bridge.I left a note that it was found on accident
> and rehid it.
>
> Everyone was a "new letterboxer" once. I think we have to remeber
> that.
>
> Wilton Scout
>
>
>


"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." -- Mark Twain



__________________________________________________
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Can you contact the girl scout leader? I'm a girl scout leader and I say at
least 500 times an outing that "we always leave things better than we found
them" and "leave no traces" because those are big big girl scout rules. I
have never taken my girls letterboxing. They are in second grade and I
think I will eventually but I will plan it in summer when usually only half
of the troop can make it to events. Less people less worry. Anyway,
leaders need to be held responsible for actions like that. We take an oath
to teach them properly and that is not proper teaching.

I'll step off my soapbox now.

Tammy
(Rock Hoppin' Mama)


-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Roze
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 11:50 AM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LbNA] misplaced boxes

After 3 of my boxes in an 8-box series went missing, I took the "kid
friendly" icon off my AQ listing (apparently, a troope of Girl Scouts were
the last ones to stamp in on the remaining boxes, and left them unhidden -
grrr!). I may take the "drive by" icon off as well, altho I kinda wanted to
leave it there for boxers who are differently-abled.

Next series will have harder clues...the first series were my first plants,
and also, there's not a lot of activity in this area, so I wanted to get
thing rolling. The one I'm working on now has much more elaborate stamps,
and I'd hate to have them disappear.

rozebud

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Roze wrote:
>
> *sigh*
>
> Yes, there are good newbies. They are usually the folks who actually
> show up on an e-group or discussion list!
>
It is very dishearting as a newbie to hear all these complaints.When
anything could happen to a box placed in a public location.

Is not one of the original rules to place the little letterboxing
print out in each box with the rules so the finder knows what to do?

Complaining here about new letterboxers seems odd when you said that
the "bad" ones are rarely on the board.

Wilton Scout

I thought I might put in my 2-cents...

I definitely think that the "kid-friendly" icon can be overused (there
are few boxes that do not tout this icon). I have definitely found
boxes in areas that I would not consider kid-friendly, especially to
letterboxing. But maybe it is the icon that is mis-understood. Kid-
friendly can mean different things to different people.

Just because a child can access the box does not necissarily mean that
it is kid-friendly. Kids do not know how to be stealthy so if a box is
planted in a highly public area marking it a kid-friendly can be
asking for trouble. I recently found some boxes that even I had
trouble picking up without being caught because I was surrounded by
literally hundreds of people... in an area that is rarely not busy.
While these boxes were marked kid-friendly I would hardly want to take
a 6-year-old boxing with me in this area simply due to the chances of
being caught.

Now I realize that this is not the case for all of the boxes that are
missing or not returned properly, but I think maybe we just need to be
more aware of how boxes are being labeled (keeping in mind that not
everyone is familiar enough with every location to know the
appropriateness ahead of time).

Fair enough? Rhea and The Gillespie Tribe

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Roze wrote:
>
> After 3 of my boxes in an 8-box series went missing, I took the "kid
> friendly" icon off my AQ listing (apparently, a troope of Girl Scouts
> were the last ones to stamp in on the remaining boxes, and left them
> unhidden - grrr!). I may take the "drive by" icon off as well,
altho I
> kinda wanted to leave it there for boxers who are differently-abled.
>
> Next series will have harder clues...the first series were my first

Take heart... the venting here is not towards anyone here... people
rarely vent to those who they are venting about. It is like employees
complaining about their boss... no one actually goes to the boss to
say they do not like what they are doing do they? In this case we
can't actually go to the source of the problem, even if we wanted to.

The venting here is more to let off steam, and possibly to help all
those here come up with ways of improving this sport/hobby, than it is
to tell anyone off. If you are hear to read it you are part of the
solution, not the problem.

Rhea and TGT

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "wiltonscout"
wrote:

>
> Complaining here about new letterboxers seems odd when you said that
> the "bad" ones are rarely on the board.
>
> Wilton Scout
>

You know, I had planned to contact the troupe leader, but life got in
the way. Maybe this weekend...

Thanks for the reassurance about the GS - way back in the dark ages,
when I was a GS, we were taught all the things you say here. I was
worried that they didn't bother any more.

Anyway, I just have my fingers crossed that there are no more magazine
articles any time soon - or if there is, I hope they stress stealth and
proper rehideation.

rozebud

--- Tammy Burge wrote:

> Can you contact the girl scout leader? I'm a girl scout leader and I
> say at
> least 500 times an outing that "we always leave things better than we
> found
> them" and "leave no traces" because those are big big girl scout
> rules. I
> have never taken my girls letterboxing. They are in second grade and
> I
> think I will eventually but I will plan it in summer when usually
> only half
> of the troop can make it to events. Less people less worry. Anyway,
> leaders need to be held responsible for actions like that. We take
> an oath
> to teach them properly and that is not proper teaching.
>
> I'll step off my soapbox now.
>
> Tammy
> (Rock Hoppin' Mama)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of Roze
> Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 11:50 AM
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [LbNA] misplaced boxes
>
> After 3 of my boxes in an 8-box series went missing, I took the "kid
> friendly" icon off my AQ listing (apparently, a troope of Girl Scouts
> were
> the last ones to stamp in on the remaining boxes, and left them
> unhidden -
> grrr!). I may take the "drive by" icon off as well, altho I kinda
> wanted to
> leave it there for boxers who are differently-abled.
>
> Next series will have harder clues...the first series were my first
> plants,
> and also, there's not a lot of activity in this area, so I wanted to
> get
> thing rolling. The one I'm working on now has much more elaborate
> stamps,
> and I'd hate to have them disappear.
>
> rozebud
>
>
>


"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." -- Mark Twain



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

--- wiltonscout wrote:
> It is very dishearting as a newbie to hear all these complaints.When
> anything could happen to a box placed in a public location.

If you are doing things properly, why are you worrying about it? Don't
you want to be aware of what is happening, and what placers expect? I
would think that would be why you are here...

And yes, boxes are in public locations and anything can happen - tell
that to the folks who have had a box in place for 2 or 3 years, only to
have it disappear right after some poorly-written magazine articles
brings all the one-box wonders and non-attentive parents out of the
woodworks.

> Is not one of the original rules to place the little letterboxing
> print out in each box with the rules so the finder knows what to do?

I have info in my boxes; some are briefer than others, as they are in
microboxes.

> Complaining here about new letterboxers seems odd when you said that
> the "bad" ones are rarely on the board.

Uh, yeah. This is a group for letterboxers to discuss issues of
importance; missing/misplaced/unhid/poorly reassembled boxes fall into
this category. As does publicity.

rozebud

"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." -- Mark Twain



__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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Yep! That's why I took it off! Just a newbie-placer mistake on my
part; live and learn!

rozebud

--- gillespieba wrote:

> I thought I might put in my 2-cents...
>
> I definitely think that the "kid-friendly" icon can be overused
> (there
> are few boxes that do not tout this icon). I have definitely found
> boxes in areas that I would not consider kid-friendly, especially to
> letterboxing. But maybe it is the icon that is mis-understood. Kid-
> friendly can mean different things to different people.
>
> Just because a child can access the box does not necissarily mean
> that
> it is kid-friendly. Kids do not know how to be stealthy so if a box
> is
> planted in a highly public area marking it a kid-friendly can be
> asking for trouble. I recently found some boxes that even I had
> trouble picking up without being caught because I was surrounded by
> literally hundreds of people... in an area that is rarely not busy.
> While these boxes were marked kid-friendly I would hardly want to
> take
> a 6-year-old boxing with me in this area simply due to the chances of
>
> being caught.
>
> Now I realize that this is not the case for all of the boxes that are
>
> missing or not returned properly, but I think maybe we just need to
> be
> more aware of how boxes are being labeled (keeping in mind that not
> everyone is familiar enough with every location to know the
> appropriateness ahead of time).
>
> Fair enough? Rhea and The Gillespie Tribe
>
> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Roze wrote:
> >
> > After 3 of my boxes in an 8-box series went missing, I took the
> "kid
> > friendly" icon off my AQ listing (apparently, a troope of Girl
> Scouts
> > were the last ones to stamp in on the remaining boxes, and left
> them
> > unhidden - grrr!). I may take the "drive by" icon off as well,
> altho I
> > kinda wanted to leave it there for boxers who are
> differently-abled.
> >
> > Next series will have harder clues...the first series were my first
>
>
>
>


"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." -- Mark Twain



__________________________________________________
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I was actually thinking about asking my service unit if I could do a
letterboxing training for the leaders before the interest got too big with
girl scouts around here. Now that there are letterboxing patches available
out there and "high tech hide and seek" patches for geocaching there will be
an interest growth in both boy and girl scout troops in the future. At
least I assume there will be. Maybe if the leaders are properly trained the
girls will be too. I haven't been letterboxing long but I am the only
letterboxer in our service unit so training falls on me. I will be sure to
stress the proper placement of boxes and being discrete parts. Anything
else I should stress?

Tammy
RHM


-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Roze
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 3:00 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [LbNA] misplaced boxes

You know, I had planned to contact the troupe leader, but life got in the
way. Maybe this weekend...

Thanks for the reassurance about the GS - way back in the dark ages, when I
was a GS, we were taught all the things you say here. I was worried that
they didn't bother any more.

Anyway, I just have my fingers crossed that there are no more magazine
articles any time soon - or if there is, I hope they stress stealth and
proper rehideation.

rozebud

Obviously you are NOT one of the "'new letterboxers' that everyone is complaining about then, if you are doing it that way! =)

Yes, we realize that other things happen to letterboxes besides careless rehiders. When I find my box out in the open with puncture marks 1" apart in the lid, I think "animal," not careless rehider. But when I find my box with the Lock n Lock lid put on upside down...and a pack of Cub Scouts were the last finders....I think "hm, newbies. Better check the rest of the series," and I consider myself fortunate to have gotten there before it rained again!

Sheba

wiltonscout wrote:

I am one of these so called "new letterboxers" that every one is
complaining about. I have been only involed for less than a month
BUT I did my home work. I researched the "RULES" that you all
follow. I explained the rules to my son.I searched out the boxes and
rehid them well.I dried all contents and replaced well in their
bags.I am respectful of the time and effort that was put into the
box.

You guys are almost scaring me out of this all though.God forbid I
ever find one of your boxes that a squirll or a dog found and have
to take the blame. We are not talking about the Amazon jungle here
where no man has gone before.Things happen,the wind blows, people
explore,dogs sniff around.



---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2/min or less.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Is the patch given just for finding letterboxes? It might be good to
make creating and hiding a new letterbox a requirement for the patch.
They may get a better understanding of the effort that goes into
finding an appropriate hiding place and have more of a stake in the
game this way. Just a thought.

3vix



--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Tammy Burge"
wrote:
>
>
> I was actually thinking about asking my service unit if I could do a
> letterboxing training for the leaders before the interest got too
big with
> girl scouts around here. Now that there are letterboxing patches
available
> out there and "high tech hide and seek" patches for geocaching
there will be
> an interest growth in both boy and girl scout troops in the
future. At
> least I assume there will be. Maybe if the leaders are properly
trained the
> girls will be too. I haven't been letterboxing long but I am the
only
> letterboxer in our service unit so training falls on me. I will be
sure to
> stress the proper placement of boxes and being discrete parts.
Anything
> else I should stress?
>
> Tammy
> RHM

The actual "girl scout" patches have several requirements to meet so finding
the box is just one of them but there are patch companies that have made
"event" patches for letterboxing that the girls can wear only on the back of
their uniform that can be given by the leader just for going on a
letterboxing field trip. Those would be totally up to the leader if they
were to require anything more than finding the boxes. That is why I would
like to do the training for the leaders so they would know that it is more
than just finding the box and would, hopefully, teach the girls that too.

Tammy
Rock Hoppin' Mama


-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of gromit459
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 8:16 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LbNA] misplaced boxes

Is the patch given just for finding letterboxes? It might be good to make
creating and hiding a new letterbox a requirement for the patch.
They may get a better understanding of the effort that goes into finding an
appropriate hiding place and have more of a stake in the game this way. Just
a thought.

3vix

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Tammy Burge"
wrote:
>
> stress the proper placement of boxes and being discrete parts.
Anything
> else I should stress?
>
> Tammy
> RHM
>
Hi Tammy

I'm sure this would come under "Discretion", but particularly with
urban boxes there is a need not to have the whole troup go looking
for the letterbox.
We had 12 GS on an outing searching for our urban series in Seal
Beach, Ca and lost the stamp while they were stamping in. At least
we received a note and I found it on the ground in front of the bus
bench they were using. Letterboxes in the country can be sought in a
group, but urban boxes take a lot more stealth.

Don

--- gwendontoo wrote:
> I'm sure this would come under "Discretion", but particularly with
> urban boxes there is a need not to have the whole troup go looking
> for the letterbox.
> We had 12 GS on an outing searching for our urban series in Seal
> Beach, Ca and lost the stamp while they were stamping in. At least
> we received a note and I found it on the ground in front of the bus
> bench they were using. Letterboxes in the country can be sought in a
> group, but urban boxes take a lot more stealth.
>
> Don

Good point. I had this mental image of a gaggle of giggling Girl
Scouts in this very urban park, shouting and pointing and counting
steps out loud and generally being kids - fun for them perhaps, but not
very discreet.

I'm going to update my clues for this series one last time to add all
the good suggestions this thread has produced. Thanks all!

rozebud

"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." -- Mark Twain



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

I had this mental image of a gaggle of giggling Girl
> Scouts in this very urban park, shouting and pointing and counting
> steps out loud and generally being kids - fun for them perhaps, but
not
> very discreet.

No it was even worse. It was on a public sidewalk and they were
decoding a historical plaque next to a bus bench. The location is
right along the fencing for the harbor of the ammunition depot. Now I
grant you the nearness of the ammo depot probably is questionable due
to terrorism possibilities, but Seal Beach is a pretty small burg and
there are few urban possibilities for hiding letterboxes.
After decoding the plaque code they found the box directly behind the
historical plaque. In the end it worked out okay.

Don

just wanted to add a little tidbit about the Girl Scout complaints.
One of the reasons that my friend & I started lb'ing was hearing
about it through our GS council. We are now completely addicted.
mostly we go with our own kids. We have taken our troop out in
public once on a quiet trail, and even then, I saw it was too much
excitement, etc. Breaking into smaller groups than the whole troop
going is probably best. Then they also get more of a chance to
figure out the clues and the full experience.

yes, as mentioned above- GS still preach "leave no trace" camping &
hiking and definitely leaving things better than you found them. We
are constantly nagging our troop about this! most parents don't
instill these things to their children, that is one of the reasons I
enjoy being a leader, to influence them. (hopefully) :)

Our council has hidden several boxes on their PRIVATE property, with
private clues, etc. The boxes there are not well hidden- due to the
fact that it is their own property, and they want the girls to be
able to find them- some harder than others.

My friend/co-leader and I are going to hold a training session at
one of our leader's weekends, and I've also been asked to go to
another Service Unit's meeting to talk about it. I wasn't going to,
just bc I already have so much to do, but I may do it now after
reading this bc I truly think that most leaders care about these
things, especially respecting other people's property, nature, etc-
that is why they are leaders (I HOPE!) and that education eliminates
ignorance (or at least cuts down on it!)

As also mentioned above they, as well as anyone else new to the
hobby may not realize how easily some curious passerby might take
the box, someone may look at it as littering, etc. whatever their
reasons. They also may not realize how people may not appreciate the
hobby, look at it as tresspassing, destroying, etc. also some
planters must keep this in mind as to how much traffic you are
sending off the trail and how far, and what damage may eventually
occur from that. I'm rambling now :)

We try to scope out the place as we pull up (with our kids) and see
how visible, etc. They are mostly into the "spy" sneaky ness of it.
If it's an urban box, or a drive by, we usually have one or two of
us, instead of all 5 kids get out, and retrieve it, stamp in at the
car, then one or two to rehide. they are 6,7,8, and 9 (the two year
old doesn't do too much rehiding- he carves the stamps- haha) and
they all know to walk around the box, make sure leaves or debris are
covering it from all sides, etc. We've also picked up trash on
trails- so the kids- as long as properly supervised are okay and an
asset to letterboxing.

We as leaders also only have the troop use one page- we do one troop
stamp (hand carved) and the girls initial around it. The council
boxes also list this as one of their rules to use 1 page per troop.

here in SC we have "fun" letterboxing patches that have no
requirements. it is the leaders decision how it is earned. Our
council has certificates to award a Gold if they find all private GS
boxes and at least two public boxes and silver if they find all
private GS boxes.

all in all, if the leaders are correctly trained, first in the law
of Girl scouting (considerate, helpful, respect others, respect
authority, make the world a better place, leave no trace, leave
better than you found it, etc) then they make the ideal
letterboxers. :)

You have beautifully summed up what I would hope would be the mindset of any
leader with respect to letterboxing. I've also taught letterboxing to my
own Cub Scouts and have taken about three years getting them to the point
where I feel I can turn them out to hunt on their own knowing they will be
good boxers.

I think that while the focus here has been on Girl Scouts, it applies to any
youth group that attempts letterboxing. I think GS is being targeted in
these comments because they are the only group so far that has formalized
LB'ing into their program.

Being a scout leader trainer myself, I believe firmly that training cures a
lot of wrongs in scouting. This applies not just to girls but to leaders.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I believe the girls and leaders who
connect with the LB'ing community truly do make excellent letterboxers. I
hope they (and you) become models for improving letterboxing among GS
troops.


On 10/27/06, patchfreak wrote:
>
> just wanted to add a little tidbit about the Girl Scout complaints.
> One of the reasons that my friend & I started lb'ing was hearing
> about it through our GS council. We are now completely addicted.
> mostly we go with our own kids. We have taken our troop out in
> public once on a quiet trail, and even then, I saw it was too much
> excitement, etc. Breaking into smaller groups than the whole troop
> going is probably best. Then they also get more of a chance to
> figure out the clues and the full experience.
>
> yes, as mentioned above- GS still preach "leave no trace" camping &
> hiking and definitely leaving things better than you found them. We
> are constantly nagging our troop about this! most parents don't
> instill these things to their children, that is one of the reasons I
> enjoy being a leader, to influence them. (hopefully) :)
>
> Our council has hidden several boxes on their PRIVATE property, with
> private clues, etc. The boxes there are not well hidden- due to the
> fact that it is their own property, and they want the girls to be
> able to find them- some harder than others.
>
> My friend/co-leader and I are going to hold a training session at
> one of our leader's weekends, and I've also been asked to go to
> another Service Unit's meeting to talk about it. I wasn't going to,
> just bc I already have so much to do, but I may do it now after
> reading this bc I truly think that most leaders care about these
> things, especially respecting other people's property, nature, etc-
> that is why they are leaders (I HOPE!) and that education eliminates
> ignorance (or at least cuts down on it!)
>
> As also mentioned above they, as well as anyone else new to the
> hobby may not realize how easily some curious passerby might take
> the box, someone may look at it as littering, etc. whatever their
> reasons. They also may not realize how people may not appreciate the
> hobby, look at it as tresspassing, destroying, etc. also some
> planters must keep this in mind as to how much traffic you are
> sending off the trail and how far, and what damage may eventually
> occur from that. I'm rambling now :)
>
> We try to scope out the place as we pull up (with our kids) and see
> how visible, etc. They are mostly into the "spy" sneaky ness of it.
> If it's an urban box, or a drive by, we usually have one or two of
> us, instead of all 5 kids get out, and retrieve it, stamp in at the
> car, then one or two to rehide. they are 6,7,8, and 9 (the two year
> old doesn't do too much rehiding- he carves the stamps- haha) and
> they all know to walk around the box, make sure leaves or debris are
> covering it from all sides, etc. We've also picked up trash on
> trails- so the kids- as long as properly supervised are okay and an
> asset to letterboxing.
>
> We as leaders also only have the troop use one page- we do one troop
> stamp (hand carved) and the girls initial around it. The council
> boxes also list this as one of their rules to use 1 page per troop.
>
> here in SC we have "fun" letterboxing patches that have no
> requirements. it is the leaders decision how it is earned. Our
> council has certificates to award a Gold if they find all private GS
> boxes and at least two public boxes and silver if they find all
> private GS boxes.
>
> all in all, if the leaders are correctly trained, first in the law
> of Girl scouting (considerate, helpful, respect others, respect
> authority, make the world a better place, leave no trace, leave
> better than you found it, etc) then they make the ideal
> letterboxers. :)
>
>
>



--
Barefoot Lucy
"It's not about footwear, it's about philosophy"


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks. I'll keep that in mind. Most of the letterboxes around here would
be considered country but we should train for all kinds of searches though.
I might not have thought of that without your note. Thanks again.

Tammy
RHM

**********************

Hi Tammy

I'm sure this would come under "Discretion", but particularly with urban
boxes there is a need not to have the whole troup go looking for the
letterbox.
We had 12 GS on an outing searching for our urban series in Seal Beach, Ca
and lost the stamp while they were stamping in. At least we received a note
and I found it on the ground in front of the bus bench they were using.
Letterboxes in the country can be sought in a group, but urban boxes take a
lot more stealth.

Don

Kids can make a good distraction too though. We have had our kids play at a
park while one of the adults goes and gets the letterbox while the onlookers
were watching the kids. :)

Tammy
RHM



******

Good point. I had this mental image of a gaggle of giggling Girl Scouts in
this very urban park, shouting and pointing and counting steps out loud and
generally being kids - fun for them perhaps, but not very discreet.

I'm going to update my clues for this series one last time to add all the
good suggestions this thread has produced. Thanks all!

rozebud

"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But
I repeat myself." -- Mark Twain

Very well said! Thanks.

Tammy
RHM


-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of patchfreak
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 1:58 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [LbNA] Re: misplaced boxes

just wanted to add a little tidbit about the Girl Scout complaints.
One of the reasons that my friend & I started lb'ing was hearing about it
through our GS council. We are now completely addicted.
mostly we go with our own kids. We have taken our troop out in public once
on a quiet trail, and even then, I saw it was too much excitement, etc.
Breaking into smaller groups than the whole troop going is probably best.
Then they also get more of a chance to figure out the clues and the full
experience.

yes, as mentioned above- GS still preach "leave no trace" camping & hiking
and definitely leaving things better than you found them. We are constantly
nagging our troop about this! most parents don't instill these things to
their children, that is one of the reasons I enjoy being a leader, to
influence them. (hopefully) :)

Our council has hidden several boxes on their PRIVATE property, with private
clues, etc. The boxes there are not well hidden- due to the fact that it is
their own property, and they want the girls to be able to find them- some
harder than others.

My friend/co-leader and I are going to hold a training session at one of our
leader's weekends, and I've also been asked to go to another Service Unit's
meeting to talk about it. I wasn't going to, just bc I already have so much
to do, but I may do it now after reading this bc I truly think that most
leaders care about these things, especially respecting other people's
property, nature, etc- that is why they are leaders (I HOPE!) and that
education eliminates ignorance (or at least cuts down on it!)

As also mentioned above they, as well as anyone else new to the hobby may
not realize how easily some curious passerby might take the box, someone may
look at it as littering, etc. whatever their reasons. They also may not
realize how people may not appreciate the hobby, look at it as tresspassing,
destroying, etc. also some planters must keep this in mind as to how much
traffic you are sending off the trail and how far, and what damage may
eventually occur from that. I'm rambling now :)

We try to scope out the place as we pull up (with our kids) and see how
visible, etc. They are mostly into the "spy" sneaky ness of it.
If it's an urban box, or a drive by, we usually have one or two of us,
instead of all 5 kids get out, and retrieve it, stamp in at the car, then
one or two to rehide. they are 6,7,8, and 9 (the two year old doesn't do too
much rehiding- he carves the stamps- haha) and they all know to walk around
the box, make sure leaves or debris are covering it from all sides, etc.
We've also picked up trash on
trails- so the kids- as long as properly supervised are okay and an asset to
letterboxing.

We as leaders also only have the troop use one page- we do one troop stamp
(hand carved) and the girls initial around it. The council boxes also list
this as one of their rules to use 1 page per troop.

here in SC we have "fun" letterboxing patches that have no requirements. it
is the leaders decision how it is earned. Our council has certificates to
award a Gold if they find all private GS boxes and at least two public boxes
and silver if they find all private GS boxes.

all in all, if the leaders are correctly trained, first in the law of Girl
scouting (considerate, helpful, respect others, respect authority, make the
world a better place, leave no trace, leave better than you found it, etc)
then they make the ideal letterboxers. :)






Yahoo! Groups Links

Boy do I ever know how you feel.

I did a lot of reading before I ever went out looking. I read everything I could find. And I
am a smarty pants. I like research and knowing "the rules." Definitely not a clueless kind of
person. So after a few weeks of thinking about it, then I went out. I didn't stamp bc I
wanted to see if I could find it first. I was very careful. I hid it very well, just like I found it.
Etc.

After a couple months, stumbled across some "code of ethics" and found out I have
"violated" it bc *gasp* I told my family and friends I was a letterboxer. Apparently I was
supposed to hide that. Be stealthy. Whatever.

Anyway, I think yes the complaining can be taken personally if it seems directed at one's
particulars. But I don't take it personally. I think what most people are concerned about is
taking the time and effort to create and hide a box and that box or its contents not
respected. If I or any "new" person respect the effort and do what we can to see that the
box doesn't go missing or get ruined due to our thoughtlessness, that is all anyone can
ask. And really anything outside of that -- like taking your dog with you, or letting your
kids stamp the book -- is no one's business but yours.

And yes, some of the posts I have read on some of the sites and some of the terminology
used seems to me to be very exclusionary -- "us" vs "them." But again, whatever. I don't
have to like it.

That is my own opinion, anyway.

Freelance Mystic

> I am one of these so called "new letterboxers" that every one is
> complaining about. I have been only involed for less than a month
> BUT I did my home work. I researched the "RULES" that you all
> follow. I explained the rules to my son.I searched out the boxes and
> rehid them well.I dried all contents and replaced well in their
> bags.I am respectful of the time and effort that was put into the
> box.
>
> You guys are almost scaring me out of this all though.God forbid I
> ever find one of your boxes that a squirll or a dog found and have
> to take the blame. We are not talking about the Amazon jungle here
> where no man has gone before.Things happen,the wind blows, people
> explore,dogs sniff around.

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Tammy Burge"
wrote:
>
> Kids can make a good distraction too though. We have had our kids
play at a
> park while one of the adults goes and gets the letterbox while the
onlookers
> were watching the kids. :)
>
> Tammy
> RHM

Good point - guess I'll have to go rent some kids! :-D

rozebud

On 10/27/06, Tammy Burge wrote:
> Kids can make a good distraction too though. We have had our kids play at a
> park while one of the adults goes and gets the letterbox while the onlookers
> were watching the kids. :)
>

On a very busy walking path the other day I had to retrieve a box from
a tree right next to the path. I set my two year-old a little way off
and played hide-and-seek with her - a perfect excuse to duck down
behind that selfsame tree. I mean, I knew having kids would be handy
in my dotage but who knew the payoff would come this quickly?